From dmandel at pdxLinux.org Thu Jul 2 09:36:18 2009 From: dmandel at pdxLinux.org (David Mandel) Date: Thu Jul 2 09:36:23 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT: July PLUG Meeting Message-ID: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?The Portland Linux/Unix Group ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?will meet ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7 PM Thursday Jul 2, 2009 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?at ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Portland State University ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?in the ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Fariborz Maseeh ? ? ? ? ? ?College of Engineering & Computer Science Building ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Room FAB 86-01 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(This is in the basement.) ? ? ? ? The building is on SW 4th across from SW College Street. ? ? ?See location H-10 on map at http://pdxLinux.org/campus_map.jpg ? ******************************************************************* ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? PRESENTATION ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Rapid Discussions ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?on ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Any Topic ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?by ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Anyone & Everyone ? ?Instead of having a formal presentation, we will get together and ? ?discuss anything anyone wants to discuss in brief sessions of no ? ?more than a few minutes each. ?If we have enough people involved ? ?we can break into smaller groups to handle each topic. ? ******************************************************************* ? ? ? Agenda: ? ? ? ? ? 7:00 - 7:30 ?Business ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?We will discuss the status of our ongoing projects ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?including PLUG's monthly Advanced Topics meetings, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?PLUG's monthly hands on clinics, PLUG for Education, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?etc. ? ? ? ? ? 7:30 - 8:30 ?Presentation ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?See above ? ? ? ? ? 9:00 - ... ?Beer ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The Lucky Lab Northwest Beerhall ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1945 NW Quimby ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Portland, Oregon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? David Mandel ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Chief Activist ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Portland Linux/Unix Group ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 560 SE Alexander ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Corvallis, Oregon 97333 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (541) 730-5285 mobile ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dmandel at pdxLinux.org ? ? ?P.S. ?The Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group meets ? ? ? ? ? ? every month. ? ? ? ? ? ? See http://www.lug.corvallis.or.us/ for details. ? ? ? P.S. ?The Eugene Linux Users Group meets several times a month. ? ? ? ? ? ? See http://www.euglug.org for details. ====================================================================== David Mandel ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.DavidMandel.com Portland Linux/Unix Group ? ? ? ? ? http://pdxLinux.org LinuxFund ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://LinuxFund.org ====================================================================== From ckfollett at juno.com Thu Jul 2 20:01:42 2009 From: ckfollett at juno.com (ckfollett@juno.com) Date: Thu Jul 2 20:04:02 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Meeting - July 2nd Message-ID: <20090702.200142.28552.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Sorry I cannot attend tonight's meeting. Just letting you know that y'all didn't scare me away. I have a bunch of family things to do tonight. I fully intend to be there next week though. Fair warning :-) -Chris ____________________________________________________________ Criminal Lawyers - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsMx6wOhi3FJT5bIsefk0RGaFjn49qXEl6mLv3XQZcHEktIVBe5kZq/ From marbux at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 03:48:22 2009 From: marbux at gmail.com (marbux) Date: Wed Jul 8 03:48:25 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement Message-ID: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> Interesting vaporware announcement by Google: . "Wow. So you know all those whispers about a Google desktop operating system that never seem to go away? You thought they might with the launch of Android, Google?s mobile OS. But they persisted. And for good reason, because it?s real. "In the second half of 2010, Google plans to launch the Google Chrome OS, an operating system designed from the ground up to run the Chrome web browser on netbooks. ?It?s our attempt to re-think what operating systems should be,? Google writes tonight on its blog." [more] Linux kernel, intended for x86 and ARM platforms, open source. Sounds like an interesting project. Don't miss the link to the Google blog. Best regards, Paul -- Universal Interoperability Council From erock23175 at aol.com Wed Jul 8 08:25:01 2009 From: erock23175 at aol.com (erock23175@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 8 08:25:15 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBCDF7656CCD49-1370-60@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com> CiBJZiBJIGNhbid0IHBsYXkgU3RhbGtlciBvciBVVDJrNCBvbiBpdC4uLkkgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCBp dC4KCi1FCgoKIAoKCiAKCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tCkZyb206IG1hcmJ1eCA8 bWFyYnV4QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4KVG86IEV1Z2VuZSBVbml4IGFuZCBHbnUvTGludXggVXNlciBHcm91 cCA8ZXVnbHVnQGV1Z2x1Zy5vcmc+ClNlbnQ6IFdlZCwgSnVsIDgsIDIwMDkgMzo0OCBhbQpTdWJq ZWN0OiBbRXVnLWx1Z10gR29vZ2xlIHZhcG9yd2FyZSBhbm5vdW5jZW1lbnQKCgoKCgoKCgoKCklu dGVyZXN0aW5nIHZhcG9yd2FyZSBhbm5vdW5jZW1lbnQgYnkgR29vZ2xlOgo8aHR0cDovL3d3dy50 ZWNoY3J1bmNoLmNvbS8yMDA5LzA3LzA3L2dvb2dsZS1kcm9wcy1hLW51Y2xlYXItYm9tYi1vbi1t aWNyb3NvZnQtYW5kLWl0cy1tYWRlLW9mLWNocm9tZS8+LgoKIldvdy4gU28geW91IGtub3cgYWxs IHRob3NlIHdoaXNwZXJzIGFib3V0IGEgR29vZ2xlIGRlc2t0b3Agb3BlcmF0aW5nCnN5c3RlbSB0 aGF0IG5ldmVyIHNlZW0gdG8gZ28gYXdheT8gWW91IHRob3VnaHQgdGhleSBtaWdodCB3aXRoIHRo ZQpsYXVuY2ggb2YgQW5kcm9pZCwgR29vZ2xl4oCZcyBtb2JpbGUgT1MuIEJ1dCB0aGV5IHBlcnNp c3RlZC4gQW5kIGZvcgpnb29kIHJlYXNvbiwgYmVjYXVzZSBpdOKAmXMgcmVhbC4KCiJJbiB0aGUg c2Vjb25kIGhhbGYgb2YgMjAxMCwgR29vZ2xlIHBsYW5zIHRvIGxhdW5jaCB0aGUgR29vZ2xlIENo cm9tZQpPUywgYW4gb3BlcmF0aW5nIHN5c3RlbSBkZXNpZ25lZCBmcm9tIHRoZSBncm91bmQgdXAg dG8gcnVuIHRoZSBDaHJvbWUKd2ViIGJyb3dzZXIgb24gbmV0Ym9va3MuIOKAnEl04oCZcyBvdXIg YXR0ZW1wdCB0byByZS10aGluayB3aGF0IG9wZXJhdGluZwpzeXN0ZW1zIHNob3VsZCBiZSzigJ0g R29vZ2xlIHdyaXRlcyB0b25pZ2h0IG9uIGl0cyBibG9nLiIKClttb3JlXQoKTGludXgga2VybmVs LCBpbnRlbmRlZCBmb3IgeDg2IGFuZCBBUk0gcGxhdGZvcm1zLCBvcGVuIHNvdXJjZS4gU291bmRz Cmxpa2UgYW4gaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgcHJvamVjdC4gRG9uJ3QgbWlzcyB0aGUgbGluayB0byB0aGUg R29vZ2xlIGJsb2cuCgpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsCgpQYXVsCgotLSAKVW5pdmVyc2FsIEludGVyb3Bl cmFiaWxpdHkgQ291bmNpbAo8aHR0cDp3d3cudW5pdmVyc2FsLWludGVyb3AtY291bmNpbC5vcmc+ Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkVVR0xVRyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKZXVnbHVnQGV1Z2x1Zy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ldWdsdWcub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZXVnbHVnCgoKCiAKCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tIG5leHQgcGFydCAtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLQpBbiBIVE1MIGF0dGFjaG1lbnQgd2FzIHNjcnViYmVkLi4uClVSTDogaHR0cDovL2V1 Z2x1Zy5vcmcvcGlwZXJtYWlsL2V1Z2x1Zy9hdHRhY2htZW50cy8yMDA5MDcwOC9lMzc4YjYwZi9h dHRhY2htZW50Lmh0bQo= From stircrazyben at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 08:43:19 2009 From: stircrazyben at gmail.com (Ben Barrett) Date: Wed Jul 8 08:43:43 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: <8CBCDF7656CCD49-1370-60@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com> References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> <8CBCDF7656CCD49-1370-60@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Those are games, huh? Sorry :) Well I read the announcement there, and I thought this part was a little silly: "Obviously, this Chrome OS will be lightweight and fast just like the browser itself. But also just like the browser, it will be open-sourced. Think Microsoft will be open-sourcing Windows anytime soon?" Now this makes pertinent discussion for our group, but I think they're over-playing the open source card. There are likely to be a lot of parts which are NOT open source, maybe tucked into browser plugins or kernel modules. To make the comparison question here is off-base: when will google open-source their search engine algorithms???! Microsoft would have too much egg on face, and even more abuse.... while google would be giving away some of their top science :) I'm very curious to see what they come up with for a new windowing system. X windows is even more archaic than.... well you know. Also very curious to see how long until VNC can play nicely with their Chromeishness, and how well it can be remotely tunneled: "Hey I've got remote Chrome via SSH!" How long until we can hear that? ;) Desktop or per-window, I'm supposing it will play nice with Android too (bookmarks by bluetooth and call-switching from cell to google voice?). Sounds fun! Ben On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:25 AM, wrote: > If I can't play Stalker or UT2k4 on it...I don't want it. > > -E > > > -----Original Message----- > From: marbux > To: Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group > Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:48 am > Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement > > Interesting vaporware announcement by Google: > > . > > > > "Wow. So you know all those whispers about a Google desktop operating > > system that never seem to go away? You thought they might with the > > launch of Android, Google=92s mobile OS. But they persisted. And for > > good reason, because it=92s real. > > > "In the second half of 2010, Google plans to launch the Google Chrome > > OS, an operating system designed from the ground up to run the Chrome > > web browser on netbooks. =93It=92s our attempt to re-think what operating > > systems should be,=94 Google writes tonight on its blog." > > > [more] > > > Linux kernel, intended for x86 and ARM platforms, open source. Sounds > > like an interesting > project. Don't miss the link to the Google blog. > > > Best regards, > > > Paul > > > -- > > Universal Interoperability Council > > > > _______________________________________________ > > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > > > ------------------------------ > Finding the best videos just got easier. Try the NEW Truveo.com > . > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090708/0c95827e/attac= hment.htm From laprice at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 10:08:31 2009 From: laprice at gmail.com (larry price) Date: Wed Jul 8 10:08:33 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> <8CBCDF7656CCD49-1370-60@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Ben Barrett wrote: > Those are games, huh?? Sorry :) > > Well I read the announcement there, and I thought this part was a little > silly: > "Obviously, this Chrome OS will be lightweight and fast just like the > browser itself. But also just like the browser, it will be open-sourced. > Think Microsoft will be open-sourcing Windows anytime soon?" > > Now this makes pertinent discussion for our group, but I think they're > over-playing the open source card.? There are likely to be a lot of parts > which are NOT open source, maybe tucked into browser plugins or kernel > modules.? To make the comparison question here is off-base:? when will > google open-source their search engine algorithms???! > Microsoft would have too much egg on face, and even more abuse.... while > google would be giving away some of their top science :) Ben, you've got to catch up to the times. The client OS will be open source (it's actually gentoo under the hood). All the proprietary bits will be hidden in the cloud. Also since this is google, they will use proprietary algorithms to examine everything you look at to better provide you with... Focused, Relevant, Advertising you want to see. It doesn't matter if the spoon is open source if the soup is full of gooey chunks of proprietary content. > > I'm very curious to see what they come up with for a new windowing system. > X windows is even more archaic than.... well you know. > Also very curious to see how long until VNC can play nicely with their > Chromeishness, and how well it can be remotely tunneled:? "Hey I've got > remote Chrome via SSH!"? How long until we can hear that?? ;)?? Desktop or > per-window, I'm supposing it will play nice with Android too (bookmarks by > bluetooth and call-switching from cell to google voice?). > completely unsubstantiated rumour has it that chromeos will be running a framebuffer with a specialized version of XMonad. From stircrazyben at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 11:04:08 2009 From: stircrazyben at gmail.com (Ben Barrett) Date: Wed Jul 8 11:04:31 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) Message-ID: Thanks for catching me up, Larry =3DP I've read a few things and have my o= wn take on it, most likely. I'm not signed up to be a Chrome OS dev or support engineer or anything! For those proprietary bits, I was thinking more about the fragments of the web which are harder to access without browser plugins, but also a little about the kernel module level which seems like a mixed blessing (not my area of course). It will be neat to see what sort of location-aware apps can arise with the combination of a netbook/laptop on chromeos and a phone on android (or possibly supporting apps for other phone/handheld platforms). Sounds like you're expecting content creators to make everything public domain, which sounds dreamy but unrealistic. As a budding content creator myself, I'm troubled about this on both digital and analog (er, steel) fronts... So back to tech, why so much google bashing lately? The benefits of AI seem so tongue-in-cheek, lately; when someone finally hands you a flying car will you go on and enjoy the ride, or protest it? So I'm saying that chrome os will make all the netbooks into flying cars or at least hoverboards, poetically, and politically, the tools of a tech-powered democrazy [sic] will be in the peoples' hands more than ever... because google can deliver linux like it has never been delivered. So, chromeos is gift horse? And age-old paradigm. How do we really want to deal with this (google), folks? We sure don't have to agree, but I'm hoping we can support an array of opinions here :) Cheerio, Ben PS - nobody seems to be ranting about the applied intelligence acting on your silly little packets before they even get to their destination anymore. Knowledge is known for example about social networking activity before the social networks even have their data, that is, in transit. The splinter in our eye? =3DP On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, larry price wrote: > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Ben Barrett wrote: > > Those are games, huh? Sorry :) > > > > Well I read the announcement there, and I thought this part was a little > > silly: > > "Obviously, this Chrome OS will be lightweight and fast just like the > > browser itself. But also just like the browser, it will be open-sourced. > > Think Microsoft will be open-sourcing Windows anytime soon?" > > > > Now this makes pertinent discussion for our group, but I think they're > > over-playing the open source card. There are likely to be a lot of par= ts > > which are NOT open source, maybe tucked into browser plugins or kernel > > modules. To make the comparison question here is off-base: when will > > google open-source their search engine algorithms???! > > Microsoft would have too much egg on face, and even more abuse.... while > > google would be giving away some of their top science :) > > Ben, you've got to catch up to the times. The client OS will be open > source (it's actually gentoo under the hood). > All the proprietary bits will be hidden in the cloud. Also since this > is google, they will use proprietary algorithms to examine everything > you look at to better provide you with... Focused, Relevant, > Advertising you want to see. > > It doesn't matter if the spoon is open source if the soup is full of > gooey chunks of proprietary content. > > > > > I'm very curious to see what they come up with for a new windowing > system. > > X windows is even more archaic than.... well you know. > > Also very curious to see how long until VNC can play nicely with their > > Chromeishness, and how well it can be remotely tunneled: "Hey I've got > > remote Chrome via SSH!" How long until we can hear that? ;) Desktop > or > > per-window, I'm supposing it will play nice with Android too (bookmarks > by > > bluetooth and call-switching from cell to google voice?). > > > > completely unsubstantiated rumour has it that chromeos will be running > a framebuffer with a specialized version of XMonad. > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090708/56362c34/attac= hment-0001.htm From marbux at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 12:34:51 2009 From: marbux at gmail.com (marbux) Date: Wed Jul 8 12:34:53 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> <8CBCDF7656CCD49-1370-60@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2c60d980907081234p5edc6655wf87a858a2a9972bf@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, larry price wrote: > completely unsubstantiated rumour has it that chromeos will be running > a framebuffer with a specialized version of XMonad. Not an unattractive rumor. :-) XMonad is cool. I got it running awhile back but haven't found the time to really dig into it. It's definitely lean and mean on the dersktop. Not sure how useful multiple workspaces tiled on the display would be on a tiny netbook screen. But it could have a substantial Gee Whiz factor in marketing. XMonad also has a fair bit of extensibility for other eye candy effects, judging by the contributed extensions. A Chrome OS vs. Windows 7 eye candy contest for the netbook market? :-) Google would have the price advantage but at least an initial disadvantage in browser extensions. Microsoft is way behind Google in free cloud offerings with substantial uptake, albeit mostly on the consumer as opposed to enterprise side. But netbooks are supposed to be about the consumer market, yes? Shifting the topic a bit, there was a perceptive take today by the Wired magazine editor in chief on the contrast between Microsoft's and Google's wielding of quite different "free" software as a competitive (anti-competitive?) weapon. . I do recall a fair size body of case law on the subject. IIRC, the thrust is that a legal line is trespassed if your loss leaders are intended to harm or have the effect of harming for-profit competition in the relevant market. Always wondered why the Justice Department didn't lob that one Microsoft's way in the MSIE bundling case. Likewise why it's never come up in other IT contexts such as other crippleware business models, Sun distributing OpenOffice.org, far below cost, etc. But that's off the top of my head. I haven't looked at that line of cases in several years. Beyond doubt, I've at least over-generalized that which is full of nooks and crannies. Best regards, Paul -- Universal Interoperability Council From erock23175 at aol.com Wed Jul 8 16:45:27 2009 From: erock23175 at aol.com (erock23175@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 8 16:45:44 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBCE3D4DEAB60A-9C8-17E1@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> Indeed Larry. the thought of using a "google-made" OS, fills me with a revulsion I'd only experienced at the thought of having to use a "Microsoft-made" OS back when I was still a mac user.? Google practically owns the internet, now they want my desktop too? I don't think so. -E -----Original Message----- From: Ben Barrett To: Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:04 am Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) Thanks for catching me up, Larry =P? I've read a few things and have my own take on it, most likely.? I'm not signed up to be a Chrome OS dev or support engineer or anything! For those proprietary bits, I was thinking more about the fragments of the web which are harder to access without browser plugins, but also a little about the kernel module level which seems like a mixed blessing (not my area of course).? It will be neat to see what sort of location-aware apps can arise with the combination of a netbook/laptop on chromeos and a phone on android (or possibly supporting apps for other phone/handheld platforms). Sounds like you're expecting content creators to make everything public domain, which sounds dreamy but unrealistic. As a budding content creator myself, I'm troubled about this on both digital and analog (er, steel) fronts... So back to tech, why so much google bashing lately?? The benefits of AI seem so tongue-in-cheek, lately; when someone finally hands you a flying car will you go on and enjoy the ride, or protest it? So I'm saying that chrome os will make all the netbooks into flying cars or at least hoverboards, poetically, and politically, the tools of a tech-powered democrazy [sic] will be in the peoples' hands more than ever... because google can deliver linux like it has never been delivered. So, chromeos is gift horse?? And age-old paradigm.? How do we really want to deal with this (google), folks? We sure don't have to agree, but I'm hoping we can support an array of opinions here :) Cheerio, Ben PS - nobody seems to be ranting about the applied intelligence acting on your silly little packets before they even get to their destination anymore.? Knowledge is known for example about social networking activity before the social networks even have their data, that is, in transit.? The splinter in our eye? ? =P On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, larry price wrote: On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Ben Barrett wrote: > Those are games, huh?? Sorry :) > > Well I read the announcement there, and I thought this part was a little > silly: > "Obviously, this Chrome OS will be lightweight and fast just like the > browser itself. But also just like the browser, it will be open-sourced. > Think Microsoft will be open-sourcing Windows anytime soon?" > > Now this makes pertinent discussion for our group, but I think they're > over-playing the open source card.? There are likely to be a lot of parts > which are NOT open source, maybe tucked into browser plugins or kernel > modules.? To make the comparison question here is off-base:? when will > google open-source their search engine algorithms???! > Microsoft would have too much egg on face, and even more abuse.... while > google would be giving away some of their top science :) Ben, you've got to catch up to the times. The client OS will be open source (it's actually gentoo under the hood). All the proprietary bits will be hidden in the cloud. Also since this is google, they will use proprietary algorithms to examine everything you look at to better provide you with... Focused, Relevant, Advertising you want to see. It doesn't matter if the spoon is open source if the soup is full of gooey chunks of proprietary content. > > I'm very curious to see what they come up with for a new windowing system. > X windows is even more archaic than.... well you know. > Also very curious to see how long until VNC can play nicely with their > Chromeishness, and how well it can be remotely tunneled:? "Hey I've got > remote Chrome via SSH!"? How long until we can hear that?? ;)?? Desktop or > per-window, I'm supposing it will play nice with Android too (bookmarks by > bluetooth and call-switching from cell to google voice?). > completely unsubstantiated rumour has it that chromeos will be running a framebuffer with a specialized version of XMonad. _______________________________________________ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug _______________________________________________ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090708/7bf7783b/attachment.htm From stircrazyben at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 16:53:13 2009 From: stircrazyben at gmail.com (Ben Barrett) Date: Wed Jul 8 16:53:36 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) In-Reply-To: <8CBCE3D4DEAB60A-9C8-17E1@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBCE3D4DEAB60A-9C8-17E1@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: So let me ask this way: how can we (if we want to), overcome our "gag reflex" at the branding, if indeed there are good and useful tools within? As activists of appropriate technology, if this contains any of it, we could discuss the pro's and con's of the contents, beyond the branding. Google keeps eating up such a variety of technology companies, there are volumes of discussion to be had on the synergy they are likely to achieve with what they've got. It strikes me a little bit like when CPU's started to be engineered by other CPU's, instead of by humans. When capabilities start growing that fast, everyone has reason to be a bit shifty ;) Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a point? ttfn, Ben On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:45 PM, wrote: > > Indeed Larry. the thought of using a "google-made" OS, fills me with a > revulsion I'd only experienced at the thought of having to use a > "Microsoft-made" OS back when I was still a mac user. Google practically > owns the internet, now they want my desktop too? I don't think so. > > -E > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Barrett > To: Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group > Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 11:04 am > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression > flavored ranting) > > Thanks for catching me up, Larry =3DP I've read a few things and have my > own take on it, most likely. I'm not signed up to be a Chrome OS dev or > support engineer or anything! > > For those proprietary bits, I was thinking more about the fragments of the > web which are harder to access without browser plugins, but also a little > about the kernel module level which seems like a mixed blessing (not my a= rea > of course). It will be neat to see what sort of location-aware apps can > arise with the combination of a netbook/laptop on chromeos and a phone on > android (or possibly supporting apps for other phone/handheld platforms). > > Sounds like you're expecting content creators to make everything public > domain, which sounds dreamy but unrealistic. > As a budding content creator myself, I'm troubled about this on both > digital and analog (er, steel) fronts... > So back to tech, why so much google bashing lately? The benefits of AI > seem so tongue-in-cheek, lately; > when someone finally hands you a flying car will you go on and enjoy the > ride, or protest it? > > So I'm saying that chrome os will make all the netbooks into flying cars = or > at least hoverboards, poetically, > and politically, the tools of a tech-powered democrazy [sic] will be in t= he > peoples' hands more than ever... > because google can deliver linux like it has never been delivered. > > So, chromeos is gift horse? And age-old paradigm. How do we really want > to deal with this (google), folks? > We sure don't have to agree, but I'm hoping we can support an array of > opinions here :) > > Cheerio, > > Ben > > PS - nobody seems to be ranting about the applied intelligence acting on > your silly little packets before they even get to their destination > anymore. Knowledge is known for example about social networking activity > before the social networks even have their data, that is, in transit. The > splinter in our eye? =3DP > > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, larry price wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Ben Barrett >> wrote: >> > Those are games, huh? Sorry :) >> > >> > Well I read the announcement there, and I thought this part was a litt= le >> > silly: >> > "Obviously, this Chrome OS will be lightweight and fast just like the >> > browser itself. But also just like the browser, it will be open-source= d. >> > Think Microsoft will be open-sourcing Windows anytime soon?" >> > >> > Now this makes pertinent discussion for our group, but I think they're >> > over-playing the open source card. There are likely to be a lot of >> parts >> > which are NOT open source, maybe tucked into browser plugins or kernel >> > modules. To make the comparison question here is off-base: when will >> > google open-source their search engine algorithms???! >> > Microsoft would have too much egg on face, and even more abuse.... whi= le >> > google would be giving away some of their top science :) >> >> Ben, you've got to catch up to the times. The client OS will be open >> source (it's actually gentoo under the hood). >> All the proprietary bits will be hidden in the cloud. Also since this >> is google, they will use proprietary algorithms to examine everything >> you look at to better provide you with... Focused, Relevant, >> Advertising you want to see. >> >> It doesn't matter if the spoon is open source if the soup is full of >> gooey chunks of proprietary content. >> >> > >> > I'm very curious to see what they come up with for a new windowing >> system. >> > X windows is even more archaic than.... well you know. >> > Also very curious to see how long until VNC can play nicely with their >> > Chromeishness, and how well it can be remotely tunneled: "Hey I've got >> > remote Chrome via SSH!" How long until we can hear that? ;) Desktop >> or >> > per-window, I'm supposing it will play nice with Android too (bookmarks >> by >> > bluetooth and call-switching from cell to google voice?). >> > >> >> completely unsubstantiated rumour has it that chromeos will be running >> a framebuffer with a specialized version of XMonad. >> _______________________________________________ >> EUGLUG mailing list >> euglug@euglug.org >> http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug >> > > _______________________________________________ > > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > > > ------------------------------ > Finding the best videos just got easier. Try the NEW Truveo.com > . > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090708/0d1c2b3f/attac= hment-0001.htm From fredjame at fredjame.cnc.net Wed Jul 8 17:24:15 2009 From: fredjame at fredjame.cnc.net (Fred James) Date: Wed Jul 8 17:24:29 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) In-Reply-To: References: <8CBCE3D4DEAB60A-9C8-17E1@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4A5538AF.6080605@fredjame.cnc.net> Ben Barrett wrote: > So let me ask this way: how can we (if we want to), overcome our "gag > reflex" at the branding, if indeed there are good and useful tools within? > > As activists of appropriate technology, if this contains any of it, we > could discuss the pro's and con's of the contents, beyond the > branding. Google keeps eating up such a variety of technology > companies, there are volumes of discussion to be had on the synergy > they are likely to achieve with what they've got. It strikes me a > little bit like when CPU's started to be engineered by other CPU's, > instead of by humans. When capabilities start growing that fast, > everyone has reason to be a bit shifty ;) > > Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a point? > > ttfn, > > Ben Ben Barrett (or anyone else concerned) Preface: I am not a purist, activist, or fanatic, in any form If you are a corporate wo/man, I should prefer that you leave all of that at the door, please, if possible - at least for this discussion Questions: Google is a corporation, yes? And as such one might presume with some degree of surety that Google is (a) profit motivated, and (b) leveraged (perhaps highly so?) In this, how is Google different from Microsoft, or IBM for that matter (other than by degree)? With all of that in mind How does this "new" OS fit into the/your world to make it better? This was all prompted by "Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a point?" Thank you for your time Regards Fred James From johnfnoo at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 18:51:51 2009 From: johnfnoo at yahoo.com (john fleming) Date: Wed Jul 8 18:51:54 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) Message-ID: <13213.98706.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Interesting development. They said they will release the source code someti= me this year. It's hard to imagine that it won't have some helpful innovati= ons in it that will fork into a freeer version,over time . JF --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Fred James wrote: From: Fred James Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression f= lavored ranting) To: "Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group" Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 5:24 PM Ben Barrett wrote: > So let me ask this way:=A0 how can we (if we want to), overcome our "gag = reflex" at the branding, if indeed there are good and useful tools within? > = > As activists of appropriate technology, if this contains any of it, we co= uld discuss the pro's and con's of the contents, beyond the branding.=A0 Go= ogle keeps eating up such a variety of technology companies, there are volu= mes of discussion to be had on the synergy they are likely to achieve with = what they've got.=A0 It strikes me a little bit like when CPU's started to = be engineered by other CPU's, instead of by humans.=A0 When capabilities st= art growing that fast, everyone has reason to be a bit shifty ;) > = > Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a point? > = > ttfn, > = > Ben Ben Barrett (or anyone else concerned) Preface: =A0=A0=A0I am not a purist, activist, or fanatic, in any form =A0=A0=A0If you are a corporate wo/man, I should prefer that you leave all = of that at the door, please, if possible - at least for this discussion Questions: =A0=A0=A0Google is a corporation, yes?=A0 And as such one might presume wit= h some degree of surety that Google is (a) profit motivated, and (b) levera= ged (perhaps highly so?) =A0=A0=A0In this, how is Google different from Microsoft, or IBM for that m= atter (other than by degree)? With all of that in mind =A0=A0=A0How does this "new" OS fit into the/your world to make it better? This was all prompted by "Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a po= int?" Thank you for your time Regards Fred James _______________________________________________ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090708/ed44e2e0/attac= hment.htm From epcraig at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 19:54:00 2009 From: epcraig at gmail.com (Edward Craig) Date: Wed Jul 8 19:54:03 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) In-Reply-To: <13213.98706.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <13213.98706.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <306c560907081954p21fd9e07l5a5210a20b56cdf0@mail.gmail.com> If they release the code, it's Free. Google's going to release it before they ship. Now if it's useful on a desktop... On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:51 PM, john fleming wrote: > Interesting development. They said they will release the source code > sometime this year. It's hard to imagine that it won't have some helpful > innovations in it that will fork into a freeer version,over time . > JF > > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Fred James wrote: > > From: Fred James > Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression > flavored ranting) > To: "Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group" > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 5:24 PM > > Ben Barrett wrote: >> So let me ask this way:? how can we (if we want to), overcome our "gag >> reflex" at the branding, if indeed there are good and useful tools within? >> >> As activists of appropriate technology, if this contains any of it, we >> could discuss the pro's and con's of the contents, beyond the branding. >> Google keeps eating up such a variety of technology companies, there are >> volumes of discussion to be had on the synergy they are likely to achieve >> with what they've got.? It strikes me a little bit like when CPU's started >> to be engineered by other CPU's, instead of by humans.? When capabilities >> start growing that fast, everyone has reason to be a bit shifty ;) >> >> Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a point? >> >> ttfn, >> >> Ben > Ben Barrett (or anyone else concerned) > Preface: > ???I am not a purist, activist, or fanatic, in any form > ???If you are a corporate wo/man, I should prefer that you leave all of that > at the door, please, if possible - at least for this discussion > Questions: > ???Google is a corporation, yes?? And as such one might presume with some > degree of surety that Google is (a) profit motivated, and (b) leveraged > (perhaps highly so?) > ???In this, how is Google different from Microsoft, or IBM for that matter > (other than by degree)? > With all of that in mind > ???How does this "new" OS fit into the/your world to make it better? > > This was all prompted by "Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a > point?" > Thank you for your time > Regards > Fred James > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > > -- Edward P. Craig "Think this through with me. Let me know your mind" Hunter/Garcia From bilbobaggab at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 06:53:49 2009 From: bilbobaggab at gmail.com (BB) Date: Thu Jul 9 06:53:53 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm enthusiastic about Google (the Gorilla) getting into the race. Wired.com has a sad tale of market share for the Linux Lover. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/ I read the Mossberg Report in the WSJ about Linux also. Sadly I must accept the negativity about various Linux Distro's and ease of use / configuration. But, I'm in it for a science end, not because it's simple. Brian PS Mint 7 is my friend...though Fedora 11 is secure On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:48 AM, marbux wrote: > Interesting vaporware announcement by Google: > < > http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/07/google-drops-a-nuclear-bomb-on-micro= soft-and-its-made-of-chrome/ > >. > > "Wow. So you know all those whispers about a Google desktop operating > system that never seem to go away? You thought they might with the > launch of Android, Google=92s mobile OS. But they persisted. And for > good reason, because it=92s real. > > "In the second half of 2010, Google plans to launch the Google Chrome > OS, an operating system designed from the ground up to run the Chrome > web browser on netbooks. =93It=92s our attempt to re-think what operating > systems should be,=94 Google writes tonight on its blog." > > [more] > > Linux kernel, intended for x86 and ARM platforms, open source. Sounds > like an interesting project. Don't miss the link to the Google blog. > > Best regards, > > Paul > > -- > Universal Interoperability Council > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090709/cf58a097/attac= hment.htm From fredjame at fredjame.cnc.net Thu Jul 9 07:41:17 2009 From: fredjame at fredjame.cnc.net (Fred James) Date: Thu Jul 9 07:41:40 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A56018D.4030808@fredjame.cnc.net> BB wrote: > I'm enthusiastic about Google (the Gorilla) getting into the race. > Wired.com has a sad tale of market share for the Linux Lover. > > http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/ > > I read the Mossberg Report in the WSJ about Linux also. Sadly I must > accept the negativity about various Linux Distro's and ease of use / > configuration. But, I'm in it for a science end, not because it's simple. > > Brian > > PS Mint 7 is my friend...though Fedora 11 is secure > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:48 AM, marbux > wrote: > > Interesting vaporware announcement by Google: > . > > "Wow. So you know all those whispers about a Google desktop operating > system that never seem to go away? You thought they might with the > launch of Android, Google?s mobile OS. But they persisted. And for > good reason, because it?s real. > > "In the second half of 2010, Google plans to launch the Google Chrome > OS, an operating system designed from the ground up to run the Chrome > web browser on netbooks. ?It?s our attempt to re-think what operating > systems should be,? Google writes tonight on its blog." > > [more] > > Linux kernel, intended for x86 and ARM platforms, open source. Sounds > like an interesting project. Don't miss the link to the Google blog. > > Best regards, > > Paul > Brian B Grain of salt time - what corporate press is going to give a great rating to a non-corporate product? Regards Fred James From marbux at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 07:56:53 2009 From: marbux at gmail.com (marbux) Date: Thu Jul 9 07:56:57 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement (Doors of Expression flavored ranting) In-Reply-To: <4A5538AF.6080605@fredjame.cnc.net> References: <8CBCE3D4DEAB60A-9C8-17E1@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> <4A5538AF.6080605@fredjame.cnc.net> Message-ID: <2c60d980907090756r1c71c137he404e9452dd2e269@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Fred James wrote: > ? In this, how is Google different from Microsoft, or IBM for that matter > (other than by degree)? > With all of that in mind > ? How does this "new" OS fit into the/your world to make it better? > > This was all prompted by "Will "they" in fact, own the desktop at such a > point?" Good questions to consider. One need be concerned with what rises from the ashes of the previous monopoly. One dimension of Google OS that bears watching are the data exchange APIs, data formats, and communications protocols. "Open source" and "open standards" are not synonyms. One phenomenon I've studied intensively is the shift from trade secret binary formats for word processors to so-called "open standard" XML formats in the form of ODF and OOXML. Both are vendor lock-in specifications that are standards in name only, far too grossly under-specified to implement in an interoperable fashion working from the specification only. The sad truth is that they are only partial specifications of the formats used respectively by OpenOffice.org/clones and Microsoft Office. The syntax is there but the semantics are woefully under-specified and there is no specification of the APIs necessary for interoperable document exchange. In other words, under-specification of "standards" has become the plain-text XML substitute for the interoperability barrier posed by secret binary formats, notwithstanding that OpenOffice.org is open source. Couple that with Sun: [i] holding the only key to the lock on the commit rights to the OOo code base; and [ii] through the code contributors' agreements being the only vendor with the right to license the code on terms other than a license approved by the Open Source Institute, and one can see an OOo cartel emerging from the Sun-IBM deal that allows IBM to recycle the OOo 3.x code base in its proprietary apps without giving back to the community its code modifications. All of which runs contrasts with Sun's promise in 2000 that it would transfer ownership and governance of the code base to a non-profit corporation in which it would hold only a minority interest. Google could play such games with its APIs, data formats, and communications protocols and in some ways already has, if one accepts as true the predictions that Chrome OS will be firmly hitched to the Google Cloud. I put the likelihood of Google releasing the source code for its cloud apps somewhat south of zero. And Google has been noticeably selective about publishing their API specs for its cloud apps. Still, I'd love to see someone hold Microsoft's feet to the fire in the netbook market and having at least a good hunk of the source code open is way better than none. Microsoft's already out of the running in the mobile device market, which is quickly becoming web-capable. Whittling off the emerging netbook market could further curtail Microsoft's ability to pull off its attempt to embrace, extend, and extinguish the Open Web. All according to me, of course. :-) Best regards, Paul -- Universal Interoperability Council From laprice at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 09:07:24 2009 From: laprice at gmail.com (larry price) Date: Thu Jul 9 09:07:26 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Important new Linux Distribution Message-ID: http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html Hannah puts important project planning and time management tools at the tips of your fingers. Hannah also includes a network management and analysis console called Rock the Net that can help you sort out issues like out-of-sync ntp servers and debug firewall rulesets. Thank you Hannah Montana network administrator. http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/enterprise-linux/new-os-game-changer-hannah-montana-linux/ From bilbobaggab at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 09:09:03 2009 From: bilbobaggab at gmail.com (BB) Date: Thu Jul 9 09:09:10 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Google vaporware announcement In-Reply-To: <4A56018D.4030808@fredjame.cnc.net> References: <2c60d980907080348j19f4cc48mf753e142d8b17f0c@mail.gmail.com> <4A56018D.4030808@fredjame.cnc.net> Message-ID: How True! I read an article about wiping hard drives, Dirk's Boot and Nuke was mentioned as the most successful. Buried in the last paragraph...the de-emphasis was very telling. More like a pillar of salt...hope I don't offend any sensibilities. Brian On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Fred James wrote: > BB wrote: > >> I'm enthusiastic about Google (the Gorilla) getting into the race. >> Wired.com has a sad tale of market share for the Linux Lover. >> >> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/chrome-linux/ >> >> I read the Mossberg Report in the WSJ about Linux also. Sadly I must >> accept the negativity about various Linux Distro's and ease of use / >> configuration. But, I'm in it for a science end, not because it's simpl= e. >> >> Brian >> >> PS Mint 7 is my friend...though Fedora 11 is secure >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:48 AM, marbux > marbux@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Interesting vaporware announcement by Google: >> < >> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/07/google-drops-a-nuclear-bomb-on-micr= osoft-and-its-made-of-chrome/ >> >. >> >> "Wow. So you know all those whispers about a Google desktop operating >> system that never seem to go away? You thought they might with the >> launch of Android, Google=92s mobile OS. But they persisted. And for >> good reason, because it=92s real. >> >> "In the second half of 2010, Google plans to launch the Google Chrome >> OS, an operating system designed from the ground up to run the Chrome >> web browser on netbooks. =93It=92s our attempt to re-think what opera= ting >> systems should be,=94 Google writes tonight on its blog." >> >> [more] >> >> Linux kernel, intended for x86 and ARM platforms, open source. Sounds >> like an interesting project. Don't miss the link to the Google blog. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Paul >> >> Brian B > Grain of salt time - what corporate press is going to give a great rating > to a non-corporate product? > Regards > Fred James > > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090709/528fab2f/attac= hment.htm From bilbobaggab at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 11:44:07 2009 From: bilbobaggab at gmail.com (BB) Date: Thu Jul 9 11:44:11 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] OT: Open Source game to let off some steam...on occasion Message-ID: I'm falling into old habits...but, hell...it's a guilty pleasure! Anyone care to comment on AlephOne? I'm sure it's ancient history to most Hard Core Gamers, so don't beat me up too bad. I'm playing with Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project...for reference. I just want to play something, on occasion, to let off some steam. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090709/f7fd1c9c/attac= hment.htm From battleshipterry at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 20:22:21 2009 From: battleshipterry at gmail.com (battleshipterry) Date: Sat Jul 11 20:22:29 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n Message-ID: <4A5956ED.6060703@gmail.com> How do you configure a cisco wrt120n? on my old router I put 192.168.2.1. and was in .my new one comes with network magic which is *demo software.* and they want mo money.the sales person said the linux version router was slower wifi and range was weak. I have network up but I want to lose network magic and just configure the Inter networking operating system that is embedded in the router if it is possible.If I cant I may take it back to frys.and get a different brand.just need to limit access to some pcs on the network and limit some sites. Any help would be great thanks in advance. If I am limited to a Ubuntu terminal to do the con fig thats ok with me. I have not read all the messages about Google chrome. but I think open source should not become a funnel for Google dollars.I think thats where it is going and wish Google would just help out Canonical and make Ubuntu better just in free ads they would put pressure Microsoft os as they say there goal is.just me 2 ?. Even though I don't like the updater in my face all the time and answering the conformation questions just to shut down in the jonty jackalope From notanatheist at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 20:58:29 2009 From: notanatheist at yahoo.com (Mr O) Date: Sat Jul 11 20:58:32 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n Message-ID: <810213.58025.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> RTFM applies to this one. Unless they don't include the most basic of documentation anymore. Easy cheesy, virtually every Linksys branded router in configured with 192.168.1.1 admin admin and you're off! Get get rid of that network magic crap. It doesn't run on linux anyway. --- On Sat, 7/11/09, battleshipterry wrote: > From: battleshipterry > Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n > To: "Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group" > Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 8:22 PM > How do you configure a cisco > wrt120n? > on my old router? I? put 192.168.2.1. and was in > .my new one comes with network magic which is *demo > software.* and they want mo money.the sales person said the > linux version router was slower wifi and range was weak. > I have network up but I want to lose network magic and just > configure the Inter networking operating system that is > embedded in the router if it is possible.If I cant I may > take it back to frys.and get a different brand.just need to > limit access to some pcs on the network and limit some > sites. > Any help would be great thanks in advance. > If I am limited to a Ubuntu terminal to do the con fig > thats ok with me. > I have not read all the messages about Google chrome. but I > think open source should not become a funnel for Google > dollars.I think thats where it is going and wish Google > would just help out Canonical and make Ubuntu better just in > free ads they would put pressure Microsoft os as they say > there goal is.just me 2 ?. > Even though I don't like the updater in my face all the > time and answering the conformation questions just to shut > down in the jonty jackalope > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > From battleshipterry at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 22:59:28 2009 From: battleshipterry at gmail.com (battleshipterry) Date: Sat Jul 11 22:59:37 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n In-Reply-To: <810213.58025.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <810213.58025.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A597BC0.6030407@gmail.com> Thanks for helping Mr O. I should have put in first post that I had tried 192.168.1.1 and that is my DSL router. and my new cisco has no dsl input to replace the dsl router.but it has to have an ip. Just cant remember the command to see ips on network .see I took a CCNA class just did not learn anything LOL. I will google it. :) Mr O wrote: > RTFM applies to this one. Unless they don't include the most basic of documentation anymore. Easy cheesy, virtually every Linksys branded router in configured with 192.168.1.1 > admin > admin > > and you're off! Get get rid of that network magic crap. It doesn't run on linux anyway. > > > > --- On Sat, 7/11/09, battleshipterry wrote: > > >> From: battleshipterry >> Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n >> To: "Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group" >> Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 8:22 PM >> How do you configure a cisco >> wrt120n? >> on my old router I put 192.168.2.1. and was in >> .my new one comes with network magic which is *demo >> software.* and they want mo money.the sales person said the >> linux version router was slower wifi and range was weak. >> I have network up but I want to lose network magic and just >> configure the Inter networking operating system that is >> embedded in the router if it is possible.If I cant I may >> take it back to frys.and get a different brand.just need to >> limit access to some pcs on the network and limit some >> sites. >> Any help would be great thanks in advance. >> If I am limited to a Ubuntu terminal to do the con fig >> thats ok with me. >> I have not read all the messages about Google chrome. but I >> think open source should not become a funnel for Google >> dollars.I think thats where it is going and wish Google >> would just help out Canonical and make Ubuntu better just in >> free ads they would put pressure Microsoft os as they say >> there goal is.just me 2 ?. >> Even though I don't like the updater in my face all the >> time and answering the conformation questions just to shut >> down in the jonty jackalope >> _______________________________________________ >> EUGLUG mailing list >> euglug@euglug.org >> http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > From battleshipterry at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 23:08:27 2009 From: battleshipterry at gmail.com (battleshipterry) Date: Sat Jul 11 23:08:34 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n In-Reply-To: <810213.58025.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <810213.58025.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A597DDB.1080402@gmail.com> arp was command and ip was 192.168.0.1 Mr O wrote: > RTFM applies to this one. Unless they don't include the most basic of documentation anymore. Easy cheesy, virtually every Linksys branded router in configured with 192.168.1.1 > admin > admin > > and you're off! Get get rid of that network magic crap. It doesn't run on linux anyway. > > > > --- On Sat, 7/11/09, battleshipterry wrote: > > >> From: battleshipterry >> Subject: [Eug-lug] configuring wrt120n >> To: "Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group" >> Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 8:22 PM >> How do you configure a cisco >> wrt120n? >> on my old router I put 192.168.2.1. and was in >> .my new one comes with network magic which is *demo >> software.* and they want mo money.the sales person said the >> linux version router was slower wifi and range was weak. >> I have network up but I want to lose network magic and just >> configure the Inter networking operating system that is >> embedded in the router if it is possible.If I cant I may >> take it back to frys.and get a different brand.just need to >> limit access to some pcs on the network and limit some >> sites. >> Any help would be great thanks in advance. >> If I am limited to a Ubuntu terminal to do the con fig >> thats ok with me. >> I have not read all the messages about Google chrome. but I >> think open source should not become a funnel for Google >> dollars.I think thats where it is going and wish Google >> would just help out Canonical and make Ubuntu better just in >> free ads they would put pressure Microsoft os as they say >> there goal is.just me 2 ?. >> Even though I don't like the updater in my face all the >> time and answering the conformation questions just to shut >> down in the jonty jackalope >> _______________________________________________ >> EUGLUG mailing list >> euglug@euglug.org >> http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > EUGLUG mailing list > euglug@euglug.org > http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug > From kbob at jogger-egg.com Sun Jul 12 20:32:28 2009 From: kbob at jogger-egg.com (Bob Miller) Date: Sun Jul 12 20:32:31 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Borrow a camera? Message-ID: I need to use a high quality camera for one day this week for an indoor photo shoot. Does anyone have a digital SLR sitting in their closet that they could lend for a day? Alternately, is there any place in town that rents photo equipment? Thanks. -- Bob Miller K kbob@jogger-egg.com From kbob at jogger-egg.com Tue Jul 14 10:06:27 2009 From: kbob at jogger-egg.com (Bob Miller) Date: Tue Jul 14 10:06:30 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Re: Borrow a camera? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, everyone. I was offered four DSLRs. Since I only need one, I've accepted Mike's offer. (He reolied first and his camera is very nice.) Besides, his camera needs a break from baby pictures. (-: On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Bob Miller wrote: > I need to use a high quality camera for one day this week > for an indoor photo shoot. ?Does anyone have a digital SLR > sitting in their closet that they could lend for a day? > > Alternately, is there any place in town that rents photo > equipment? > > Thanks. > > -- > Bob Miller ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?K > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?kbob@jogger-egg.com > -- Bob Miller K kbob@jogger-egg.com From hal at deer-run.com Tue Jul 14 10:59:01 2009 From: hal at deer-run.com (Hal Pomeranz) Date: Tue Jul 14 11:00:57 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] [ITPRO-ANNOUNCE] Jul 21st -- John Abbe, Geeks + Culture Shift Message-ID: <20090714175901.GA12642@deer-run.com> [Yes, summer is here, but we're still going to get our Geek on!] Geeks + Culture Shift, John Abbe 6:30pm Tuesday, Jul 21st Eugene City Brewery (downstairs) A convincing response has emerged to the 10,000-year-old culture of domination, hierarchy and othering that seems to rule the world. We're already mainstream; making that visible depends on people in the various threads of the movement seeing all of the other threads as part of a common cloth. "What do a wiki geek and someone into Nonviolent Communication have in common?" John's going to give us his perspective on how this all ties into Geek culture. From marsee at oreilly.com Thu Jul 16 11:14:48 2009 From: marsee at oreilly.com (Marsee Henon) Date: Thu Jul 16 12:17:44 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] Books and News from the O'Reilly User Group Program--July Message-ID: <1247768088.7507.0.541958@post.oreilly.com> View this information as HTML in your browser, click here: http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z68kgafdoth40v8na2jnnhcn6fa5abt5oqg5t200 Hi there, We're updating our UG newsletter so it's easier to find the info you need to keep in touch with O'Reilly. Comments, suggestions, and feedback are always welcome. 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If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee@oreilly.com ================================================================ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090716/3353487e/attachment-0001.html From bob at assuredcomp.com Mon Jul 20 09:41:16 2009 From: bob at assuredcomp.com (Bob Crandell) Date: Mon Jul 20 09:41:29 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] SCO 5.5 (or is it 5.0.5?) Message-ID: <4A643BBC02000046000CC448@mail.computerbaseusa.com> Hi Gang, I have a client with an older POS system that runs on SCO. They are trying to connect a remote site with a modem. All I need to get it working is to change the phone number. Does anybody know this stuff well enough to find and edit a text file? They are already willing to upgrade to a new Linux based system we just need to get this working while we figure out the data export/import. Thanks Bob Crandell Assured Computing, Inc. http://www.assuredcomp.com/ 541-868-0331 ComputerBase http://www.computerbaseusa.com/ 541-349-0404 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090720/57046633/attachment.htm From amerine at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 09:59:33 2009 From: amerine at gmail.com (Mark Turner) Date: Mon Jul 20 09:59:36 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] SCO 5.5 (or is it 5.0.5?) In-Reply-To: <4A643BBC02000046000CC448@mail.computerbaseusa.com> References: <4A643BBC02000046000CC448@mail.computerbaseusa.com> Message-ID: <3d5138980907200959s1467d6d3gf4330f56d7a3f22b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Bob Crandell wrote: > Hi Gang, > > I have a client with an older POS system that runs on SCO. ?They are trying > to connect a remote site with a modem. ?All I need to get it working is to > change the phone number. ?Does anybody know this stuff well enough to find > and edit a text file? > > They are already willing to upgrade to a new Linux based system we just need > to get this working while we figure out the data export/import. > Have you tried the scoadmin utility? I don't recall if 5.5 had it but I'm almost sure it does. Try running 'scoadmin modem manager' from a terminal. Also check the '/usr/lib/uucp/Systems' file and see if the number is in there, if it is you might be able to get away with just modifying that. -Mark From hal at deer-run.com Mon Jul 20 14:02:30 2009 From: hal at deer-run.com (Hal Pomeranz) Date: Mon Jul 20 14:04:27 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] [ITPRO-ANNOUNCE] Jul 21st -- John Abbe, Geeks + Culture Shift Message-ID: <20090720210230.GA30739@deer-run.com> [Meeting is tomorrow night! Be there or be square!] Geeks + Culture Shift, John Abbe 6:30pm Tuesday, Jul 21st Eugene City Brewery (downstairs) A convincing response has emerged to the 10,000-year-old culture of domination, hierarchy and othering that seems to rule the world. We're already mainstream; making that visible depends on people in the various threads of the movement seeing all of the other threads as part of a common cloth. "What do a wiki geek and someone into Nonviolent Communication have in common?" John's going to give us his perspective on how this all ties into Geek culture. From bob at assuredcomp.com Mon Jul 20 16:12:46 2009 From: bob at assuredcomp.com (Bob Crandell) Date: Mon Jul 20 16:13:01 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] SCO 5.5 (or is it 5.0.5?) In-Reply-To: <3d5138980907200959s1467d6d3gf4330f56d7a3f22b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A643BBC02000046000CC448@mail.computerbaseusa.com> <3d5138980907200959s1467d6d3gf4330f56d7a3f22b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A64977E02000046000CC458@mail.computerbaseusa.com> Hi Mark, Those commands helped. I found out that the phone number is stored in the Mulitech modem. At least that's something I can deal with. Thanks Bob >>> Mark Turner 7/20/2009 9:59 AM >>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Bob Crandell wrote: > Hi Gang, > > I have a client with an older POS system that runs on SCO. They are trying > to connect a remote site with a modem. All I need to get it working is to > change the phone number. Does anybody know this stuff well enough to find > and edit a text file? > > They are already willing to upgrade to a new Linux based system we just need > to get this working while we figure out the data export/import. > Have you tried the scoadmin utility? I don't recall if 5.5 had it but I'm almost sure it does. Try running 'scoadmin modem manager' from a terminal. Also check the '/usr/lib/uucp/Systems' file and see if the number is in there, if it is you might be able to get away with just modifying that. -Mark _______________________________________________ EUGLUG mailing list euglug@euglug.org http://www.euglug.org/mailman/listinfo/euglug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://euglug.org/pipermail/euglug/attachments/20090720/f7e65885/attachment.htm From beau at open-source-staffing.com Mon Jul 27 20:53:38 2009 From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould (OSS)) Date: Mon Jul 27 20:53:44 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] [JOB] PHP5/AJAX Expert | 40-65/hour (dep on exp) Message-ID: <9BA76E8B671548ABA6B51B998500B1C4@EMACHINE> PHP5/AJAX Expert | 40-65/hour (dep on exp) Our Portland, OR client is looking to hire an expert PHP 5 / AJAX Developer for an on-going consulting engagement. The developer will be responsible for taking their platform to the next level. ** Local Portland, Oregon candidates preferred, but all considered ** MUST be expertly skilled in OO PHP 5 and AJAX and your resume should convey it ** 100% telecommute (if living outside of the Portland area) ** Must reside in the USA This will involve: * intelligent automation of common procedures * intelligent tagging of documents * updating their order form for AJAX functionality * other admin tools for in-house use What skills do you need for this job? * expert knowledge and application of object-oriented PHP 5 * expert knowledge and application of AJAX * creativity to point out where AJAX can be used to make us more efficient * HTML & CSS When applying, please include your resume as well as an OO PHP 5 code sample and your hourly rate to beau-AT-open-source-staffing.com Thank you, Beau J. Gould Open Source Staffing www.open-source-staffing.com beau-AT-open-source-staffing.com PHP & MySQL Discussion / Jobs http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1958013 IT Management Conference: http://www.ManageIT.me - Learn from the Greatest Minds in IT! Creators of MySQL & PHP + Gary Vaynerchuk + Chief-Execs at IBM, Forbes, HBO, GE, AIG, Citigroup, more! From hal at deer-run.com Thu Jul 30 15:58:00 2009 From: hal at deer-run.com (Hal Pomeranz) Date: Thu Jul 30 15:59:40 2009 Subject: [Eug-lug] [ITPRO-ANNOUNCE] Aug 17th -- Lightning Talks! Message-ID: <20090730225800.GA32162@deer-run.com> Lightning Talks! 6:30pm Tuesday, Aug 17th Eugene City Brewery (downstairs) Just a reminder to everybody that the August 17th meeting is our annual "Lightning Talks" session. We encourage you to prepare a 5-10 minute talk on some IT-related topic that would be of general interest to our members. It's a great way to get some experience talking in front of a group in a relaxed venue. If you're planning on giving a talk, it would help if you could email me and let me know. This lets me avoid any duplication and plan a schedule for the talks. If you're having trouble coming up with a topic, I can help with that as well.